Episode 012 - Crew Sessions - Directors and Creators

Stuart and Dave chat with Labuntina creator and director Valentina Ventimiglia about turning an idea into a Sky Kids Original, the animation process, and her path through the industry as a female director.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

As we've established very clearly before now, animation needs directors, of course, but it also needs the creators, those who come up with the ideas for the series, features, and shorts. Most directors fulfill both criteria quite often because we think we can do it better than whatever we're working on. Welcome to the world of directors and creators on directors up through session.

SPEAKER_03 0:27

Oh, my name is Dave Osborne, and I've been directing on animated television series for probably heading towards 30 years, and on shows like Mr. Bean, Nexo Night, and Super Team 4.

SPEAKER_02 0:39

And I am Stuart Evans, and I have been a director for nearly 30 years as well. And I've uh directed on 2D and 3D broadcast shows, uh, the biggest being Bob the Builder, which was a long-running series and uh features.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

On this episode of Director's Cut Cruise Sessions, we have our special guest, someone who, as a storyboard artist, animator, musician, director, creator of IP, and can probably change a tire while juggling chainsaws. Welcome, Valentina Ventimedilia.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Good effort. Thank you so much for having me. Hi.

SPEAKER_03 1:22

Okay, well, look, you're not here to have fun with us, although you are here to have fun with us.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Of course I am.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

I thought this was fun. It's good to catch up. It's good to catch up, absolutely. Well, look, you know, we all know each other quite well. Um, so I think one of the things that would be great for our audience is to let the audience know what we know, which is can you tell us how you got into the animation industry and some of your career highlights? A little sort of bio of what you've been doing for the last so many years.

SPEAKER_01 1:54

So I first of all, I come all the way from Sicily, but I have basically worked always for the UK. So I studied animation in north of Italy and then uh got an internship in Cartoon Network, um, and ever since I've been freelancing in the UK. Um as a 2D animator, then storyboard artist. And one of the very early highlights was um taking part in Frankenweenie and fantastic Mr. Fox as an assistant storyboard artist. Then uh obviously later on moving to the north of England to work with Dave on a series, it was great, and I still am here in Manchester. Um, that was quite uh an experience to move all the way up north. I had been developing little by little a concept for a TV series um that um then eventually got made, and I think that is my biggest highlight. So this series is called Labuntina, it's on Sky Kids, and um then I basically that was my debut as a director, and then I worked with Dave as an episodic director um on Super Team 4, then I got a chance to work on the Mumions as well as an assistant director to work with uh Magic Like Pictures on the Christmas Islands 2025 with the Graffalo. That was for me also another big highlight, and now I'm learning new things.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

Okay, a fantastic highlights reel there. Um, what, in your opinion as a director, is the key role of a director? And can I also add that as the first woman director on here, do you feel that being a woman as a director, has there been any hindrance in the industry? Or do you feel the opportunities are quite equal?

SPEAKER_01 3:54

To me, a director um is the one that keeps it together basically. So holds the integrity of the IP, the storytelling, has the answers to everyone, um, because you're gonna ask, you're gonna have to answer a lot of questions, and basically guides uh everyone else so that everyone is aligned with the tone, storytelling. There are so many stages from um, you know, the very start of a production to the end. And the risk is that you know this thing starts as one thing, and then across the stages it just becomes something else. Um regarding the position as a woman director, do you mean specifically as a director in the industry or as a woman in the animation industry?

SPEAKER_02 4:44

I think well, as as you were as you were coming up in the industry, did you feel that you had the same opportunities? Was it a level playing field for men and women in the industry? Because I know I know there is a uh there is a women in animation group um that's been set up specifically for this for this issue. So just obviously we can't speak of that, but just in your position when you were coming up in the industry, did you did you feel it was it was very level and fair and the opportunities were open for everyone?

SPEAKER_01 5:18

So up to a certain level, yes, I would say as an animator, as um, you know, part of you know the crew, no problem. I find it is if you want to get out of the user patterns as you know, um producers of women, and then directors, um male, um that becomes a little bit more tricky. And I was lucky to have had uh the brilliant opportunity with um you know given to me by another woman. So Lucy Marth is the one who uh I met with, and in giving me the opportunity of uh making La Brutina, she basically uh trusted me, and that's how I became you know director for the first time. So that was to me, I think, quite a unique um opportunity. Um so it was at the good um, it was good timing, and I was in the right place with the right people. It's not evenly spread, I would say. It's not evenly distributed. So in theory, it is there, but I think we're still a long way away from uh this being equal. And it's not, I mean, I think the pipeline needs to be designed for something like this rather than trying to fix um you know situation, you know, whilst the problem when the problem presents itself. So um anything that is still um related to family life, so it's not just women. I think that is the big challenge, the biggest challenge. There's so many choices that you need to make. Unfortunately, there is still family and career that is still that still affects your career as a woman, especially very, very much. So I wish things could change there rather than you know say and be more um open to hiring women and train them as director um to tick a buff and say, yeah, we want to be open to actually design the pipeline and how shows are made, productions are made so that they can accommodate family life for women and men.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

It's it's notorious for being asking people to work crazy hours and just a real sweatshop mentality sometimes, especially with some of the bigger studios. There is a real sweatshop mentality, and you know, if you're not gonna willing to put in all these hours, there is a big queue of people outside the door who are willing to do that. So, yes, there should be there should be that leeway for um uh for for everyone for everyone to to have this nice work-life balance, is especially all women, because women are usually the caregivers who will who are the are the ones who are relied on more to for for good or bad, relied on to to look after children and everything like that. But it it shouldn't be, it should be equal. But yes, there should definitely be something in contracts, and that consideration needs to be uh needs to be more to the fore. We need to come into the 21st century at last, it will be good.

SPEAKER_03 8:37

I mean, I think to answer one aspect that you mentioned about training, I think you know the reality is, I mean, it's one of the reasons why we started doing this podcast because we perceived there isn't really a formal training. I never had any formal training as a director. Um, it was basically make something, um, and you know what you learnt along the way. It was also an element of you know, you worked with people, you watched how other people fulfilled the role, and you you know, you you you kind of learnt from that. Um, I think that's much more difficult at the moment in this um studio without walls situation that many people find themselves in these days, where um you know work is remote and um you know you're given a task and whatever, and you do it in you basically do it in isolation. Um and I think that's it becomes a more difficult thing to understand, you know, quite how the role works, um, and and maybe you know, the craft things that you know you know perhaps you know some of us take for it for granted that we have um to be able to operate with, you know, that doesn't really get passed on uh in a formal way. Uh I mean I think that's also true for other aspects within the you know industry. I think that's also true for production. A lot of people come through a process of you know, maybe starting out as a production assistant or coordinator, and you know, their roles increase and you know they gain um you know promotion through that process. But I'm I'm not sure how much formal training there is with any of those things. Um I I think the universities certainly in the UK, they they produce people who can think. Um, I'm I'm not sure how much vocational work is is still laid out. It certainly and I can only talk about my time. There wasn't much during my day. You know, the the the vocational side of it, you weren't taught really how to animate, but you were taught how to think about how to animate in a way, um, and and and how to tell a story. So that's perhaps you know something that perhaps still needs to be considered and looked at about how we we pass on this information, how we pass on and and and build a um you know a platform for people to be able to step onto in order to get access to that next phase of being a director or um that those roles. As with so many directors, you also create IP, most notably the Sky series La Boutina. How did you make that leap from an idea on your desk to an actual broadcast series? And we feel at the moment, especially with so many talking about people talking about becoming creators and and using platforms like YouTube or other similar sorts of places to actually sort of expose their work and and and you know again try and build an audience and things, um, you know, how how do you perceive, you know, what what was your path there? What were the things that worked? What were the things that didn't work quite so well?

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Well, um so it's interesting because the way creators are making shows at the moment is exactly what I did 10 years ago when I went on Kickstarter. So I um started developing my concept out of a need because I was a young mom and I needed um something to entertain my little one with. It was um something that would basically open a channel of communication. So something developed for like the modern young mom, right? So that was my target, and it all started with music. So it just I just started singing songs and uh they worked, so I created more, and then given my job, the fact that I'm an animator, I was an animator as well, and uh I love to create characters, I designed a concept around all these songs and um and then started putting together a project over years. It wasn't just like obviously I needed to do it in my spare time of evening, but I was really, really motivated. And then when I um moved to the north of um of the UK, is it wasn't that stage where I had a pack already? I felt ready I could go out to studio, so I explored the studio route, then I went to the CMC and stuff that you know, doing those speak meetings, and uh and everybody kept on asking the same thing, like we want to see a pilot. This is wonderful, but we want to see a pilot, and I was like, I don't have money for a point, so I I felt really blocked, and then at some point, another situation was so that a studio was interested, but they were basically going to rip me off, and so I said, you know what, I'm just gonna go and kickstart it. And uh, and my idea was I will raise enough money to make this bloody python and then put it on YouTube, and somebody will see how wonderful it is and will pick it up and will want to do because I needed to prove that this was good. People need to invest money in you, and how can you convince them? They see millions of you know pictures, and which one is the right one? So that they want to see, but that it comes at a cost. So I was successful with the Kickstarter campaign, and actually, the video that I made that I invested like a month into doing this, like you know, filming myself, doing a little bit of animation, that video is the one that got the attention of Lucy Murphy because at the time she was building the uh Sky Kids channel, and uh they were looking at content to fill it with, and they were looking for a music-based project, and so that was perfect timing for me. So um, she watched uh my video and um because it was shared in uh the festival's uh Facebook page, and then she got in touch with the with Rob, and uh and Rob got in touch with me, and and he put us together, and it was um insanely unreal, but um, that's how it works, very unconventional. Uh, I met up with Lucy, we we had a conversation, and she was very excited, and she really invested in me, and I will forever be grateful for that. And so it just was fast, it was fast, and I um I made the first series in uh from start to finish, I think it was like a year and a half, and I've heard of projects being there waiting for five years before anything moves, and in the meantime, the cost of living goes up and the budget shrinks, and so um I was very, very lucky.

SPEAKER_03 15:38

In terms of the show that you created and the process that you went through, if if you were looking back at that process now and you were at the same point that you were when you say you had a few songs and maybe a little bit of a concert, what would you do anything differently having gone through that process? I mean, to a certain extent, you know, there were things that happened because it you were in the right place at the right time with the right idea, if that makes sense. But are are are there things that you might have done differently, or would you have considered any other route, maybe, you know, now?

SPEAKER_01 16:12

Oh, absolutely, it was a learning, massive learning curve. So looking back, I'm proud of um what we did, what we could achieve uh with uh you know the budget that we had and the time. Um, but if I were to go back, I would definitely make sure to build a bigger core team because it was just me. And there are things I'm good at, and there are other things that I just don't want to deal with, and that is all the bureaucracy aspect. Um and nowadays I would definitely will want to pair up with somebody that is like a salesperson and that is very good with marketing and advertising because despite having a very, very good producer, she's incredible. Naomi, I really loved working with her. Um, I also needed somebody who would basically sell this. Um, and um, you know, uh nowadays, despite the fact that La Burrina is on Sky, I was BAFTA nominated for it. We have two seasons. If I'm not there constantly pushing it on Instagram or Facebook, no, Facebook for all people apparently, um, you know, um on TikTok, people just don't know it. And unfortunately, you also YouTube is another one we have a little bit there, but you know, um that has made a massive difference. And I, if I spend my time doing that, when do I do my director job? And first of all, I don't want to do any of that, I want to do my job, I would like to be free to do that. So to go back to your question, I will want to find somebody that basically fills the gaps and pushes this forward. And at the time the situation was not as it is now. So yeah, that is my answer.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

So I think it's very wise to say to to know what your limits are. I say, yes, we'd we'd all love to do it all ourselves, but we can't do everything ourselves. I mean, you are you are quite the quite the polymath with your with your your your singing, you're animating, you're playing, you you can put so many elements into it, but it's knowing where you just have to say, I've got to bring someone else in and hand it over to you and and get a and get a team on it. But for that, you need the Kickstarter funds. So it's I I think that's that's very useful for those who think, well, I've got an idea, but I've got no idea, no idea how to get that into the marketplace. So I think that's that's there's some really, really useful tips. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

I um you're welcome. I don't think I would have the energy to do that again, to be honest with you guys. And I cannot believe that this is now a thing and this is what it is expected, because we're basically getting to do all the work. For what exactly? Because I think there's a massive change in how um things used to work and how they use they work now. So before you were given like the chance to do something with, like you said, Stuart, with you know, putting a pack together with pictures and and then you know you will go into the socials, and now it's like the yodo around you need to prove to these people that you've got the audience first. So you're not gonna be able to prove it with a finished episode, you can prove it by uh raising awareness. How do you raise awareness? So it's just like going backward and change completely, uh, going from the social to start with with little, little clips, little uh drawings, posts, and everything, just to raise the awareness. The more fan base you have, then the more people following you. And I have I have to say that when I was on Kickstarter, people that got enthusiastic about the idea, they gave me strength and they made me think actually do it because doing it on your own, you question yourself so much. Um, you kind of need that uh, you know, fan base of it uh to you know keep um you up there, like believing this can really happen and can be a thing. Uh it is exhausting. So um then after you prove, um, and there's so many options now, examples of this. Um, this shows uh that I follow people on uh LinkedIn that they are um developing IPs, people who are established in the industry, right? But then because of that fan base, then you are able to do like the first pilot, maybe, and just but it is so much effort because in the meantime nobody's gonna pay you to live while you do the Kingston campaign. It is a tough, tough work. So, my um initial goal was just to make the first pilot to think about doing a whole series like this to prove people that this is the thing. I think it's not sustainable. I think it is something that um the industry is relying on, and it's not fair. I think what should change is that um maybe looking at the massive difference is how people are consuming, how the audience is watching, where the audience is. That drives the money, and the money drives whether you're gonna get the project done or not, and how much how long it is, and how much effort if your life is gonna be hell or not. So it's just like Going the other way around.

SPEAKER_03 22:01

I I I always used to uh feel it was a little bit um if you if you made our industry a comparison to say the pharmaceutical industry, it was a little bit like everybody was trying to um produce the NYX uh wonder drug in their kitchens.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

The inevitable question about AI, as it's definitely already a part of our creative lives, do you think there's a place for it to be safely used as a tool, or do you feel that too many people are relying on it completely nowadays? What is your position?

SPEAKER_01 22:35

I believe that our industry is and will always be a dynamic, forever-changing and evolving industry. So when I talk, for example, about the pipeline adjustments, um, yeah, I'm talking about that. Just instead of using the same model and fixing it retroactively, just acknowledge the fact that it has changed, it is changing, and just embrace it, design it with all these other, you know, um other ingredients. And AI is one of these ingredients. And why not? I mean, I have been struggling to, for example, going back to the women, you know, balancing balancing, you know, family life and industry with um how the pipeline is built. And it's extremely difficult to come up with something that works for everybody and then gives you at the same time uh, you know, um uh a structure to uh to follow and then and and take into account uh you know people getting sick uh or you know maternity leaves or um pick up school and school pickup. So if AI with all of these informations could help us, for example, solving some of these issues, because they're extremely difficult, and you know, we blame the producers, but it is you know, it's it's non-human um to come up with something so complicated that could uh answer so many questions and um work and keep it together. So if there was a way to use AI for that, um I would be so open to it. Yeah, anything that can make our life easier and speed it up, um, yes. So that is one example. Another thing is, for example, when I was working as a director, like also with you, uh Dave as an episodic director, you need to um evaluate who um he's gonna read, who's gonna read your comments, who's gonna read your brief or your feedback. Is it um the single animator or is it the animation director? So for someone like me, for example, I am not English monotone. So how can I pass on my message to get that person to understand it and do what I would like them to do in the best possible way, considering who I'm talking to. So, for example, if I said to AI, this is my message, right? I want that person to do this, consider it's an animator, consider it's the animation director, then maybe I could have, you know, um Chat GPT or who were whichever tool helping me with that. And why not? Because as a director, I you know the thinking time is the most, you know, um, it's where your time goes. Okay. So the more thinking time you have, the better job you do. And lately there hasn't been much of that available because of the pipelines.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

So you see it very helpful as a as a tool to aid your creativity and not because some so many people uh who are who are non-creative just see it as they they now have the key to create so much and they feel that it's they feel that this is fine. Do you feel do you feel that the that the the bar has been lowered in terms of expectation because, as we've said before, it's very noisy, there's a lot of content out there, and because there is the AI imagery specifically, not the organizational side, but the AI imagery, that there are enough people who are good at prompts or think they're good at prompts, and images are being are being um created and short animations are being created. Do you feel that the bar of expectation is lower? So that do we have to go that low, or should we remain high to to keep up to keep up the standard of the keep up the quality of what we are producing? So we we literally take the high road and leave the slop down the bottom there.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

I think there's a big fuss around it at the moment. If you have used it, you know that it can go only as far as you know generating random things when it comes to yeah, keep this but modify that, it just becomes incredibly frustrating. So then what is the best use of my time as a director to just basically keep on giving notes to something that is basically like um a useless assistant at that point or actually having you know using it um to sometimes also to brainstorm or to have like some to bounce idea with, like you said, and then have a team that can actually understand what it is that I want and uh just you know develop this with me, people. Um so I don't think we should lower our standards because eventually, past a certain level, if it is not good, past the initial beautiful look, you will see that it's not good. So I think we we need to hold on to um our you know what our knowledge of storytelling. I mean, in America, the writer's guild have had to the union uh got in their deal, and that's why they they went on strike that um a script written by AI is um it's not a script, basically. So script is something has to be written by a human being, and that is massive. I think the regulations need to be on top of it. Animation is it's a work of people coming together, and I miss that so much. In fact, it's part of something that I would I would like eventually to connect. So thinking of doing something just Chad GPT, but I don't think it's gonna go far. You think you can use it for certain stages of production, but then eventually it's uh it has to be made by you to connect.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

Kind right well that's that's AI sorted. We've done that now. We're all very clear, all very clear on where we stand. At the moment, it'll develop over the next few months, I'm sure. Yeah, Valentina, what are your plans and ambitions for the future in terms of the animation industry?

SPEAKER_01 29:38

So, one thing I'm I've had for ages and never had the time to do was to make a short film. So I actually have applied to the short film fund, so I don't know whether I'll hear back from them, but that deadline with the BFI um sort of made forced me to write finally, something that's been in my head for ages. And so yeah, I would like to do that, and then eventually um I would also like to work on features again. Um I would like to, I have another IP I am developing, uh, but I'm sort of monitoring at the moment because again, as I said before, I don't want to do it on my own, I need a team, and so um that's something else that is growing in my head. Um and in the meantime, well, as you know, like um I love to learn, so I'm learning everything that I've always wanted to learn. Uh, not just related to animation, it's just related to the making stuff, because that's what I am built to do. I'm able to make stuff, whatever that is.

SPEAKER_03 30:57

Fantastic. Right. I think, Stuart, we need to move on to the really difficult questions now, as always.

SPEAKER_02 31:03

Yes, yes. Uh yeah, uh, we didn't pass these on earlier because they're really tricky. Yeah, you ready for the first one?

SPEAKER_00 31:12

Go on.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

We're sorry about this.

SPEAKER_03 31:14

Go there, Valentina. What do you prefer? Tea or coffee?

SPEAKER_00 31:22

Coffee. Is that it?

SPEAKER_02 31:27

Oh, that's just part one. Oh no, you don't get off the hook that easy. Second one. What's your favorite thing to have on toast?

SPEAKER_00 31:37

Anything but beans, please. Anything anything but beans, and this beans on toast reminds me of a very good friend, uh John Offord, and this concept of beans on toast. Oh my god, it's just stuck with me. So toast, butter, and jam.

unknown 31:58

Well done.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

That's fantastic. Okay, thanks to our very special guest, Valentina Ventimilia, and her insight into her experience as a director, and also in bringing an original IP to the screen.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_03 32:15

As always, please like and subscribe to the channel. Check out our other videos. We did do another one on directing as a type of director. Um of course remember that even though we have any other.